Curse

aaje vhanli · Jun 21, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

The professions are fine. Their skills/capabilities just need to be reworked and balanced.

KainSword · Jun 21, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

Warriors are safe, monks are safe, eles and rangers are probably safe. Find me an MMO that doesn't have those professions...

RuneScape doesn't have Monks or any sort of healer profession and/or healing spell. IIRC all healing is done by eating different foods. But besides refuting your point with an off-the-wall MMO...

I don't particularly care much for Mesmers. Illusions are a great idea for a new class, but if we had to chop some off, an illusion based class could very well be the first to go. Dervish don't really have much of a place either. I've never played an MMO which used Scythes as a weapon class. While they're a good class on paper, they could very well be cut. Actually what needs to happen is that all classes should be more self dependent, rather than having the almost mandatory two Monks per PUG.

If the classe count would have to be cut in half, Warrior, Ranger, Monk, Elementalist, and Necromancer (ArenaNet's supposed favorite child) would be the only ones to make the cut. After that, you'd have to consider which other classes would be needed to balance those primary 5.

englitdaudelin · Jun 21, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

My own personal guesses:
1)the current 10 classes in some way will appear in GW2, perhaps in altered form. No real reason except some generic extrapolating:
A-Net has said it's aware that we're attached to our character names. Wouldn't it be a pretty short step to be aware that we're attached to our character classes and looks? (I reeeeeeally like the way my rit looks.

)
A "lore" has been built through the quest lines that has a variety of character classes entering Tyria, and building monuments, and helping the battle against the charr, and so on. Tyria even has monsters of all 10 classes now. Those characters have become sort of immigrants to Tyria, and trained among the Norn and the Ebon Vanguard (Anton, Vael, mmmhmm?) and Asura, and then (here's my stretch a little)...passed those skills onwards. Why break such an obvious storyline? What could explain the disappearance of the skills of the heroes who built their monuments? What could explain the disappearance of these immigrant classes to Tyria (and the monsters, too)?
Seems to me..not much.
So that's why I think the current 10, in some form, will remain in GW2.

IF I HAD to speculate, and assume something IS getting the axe? Consider this:
Similarly, a lore has been built around the other, minor characters we've met-- Minor to us, major to the storyline, that is. Kormir and Togo come immediately to mind. The effect of these two might resonate more strongly than any others--and if that's the case, then Paragons and Rits might NOT be for the chop...and Dervishes and Sins MIGHT be.
More likely, as many posters suggested: those classes might be folded into the warrior and ranger classes, respectively?

Good rezz of an old thread, btw.

Krill · Jun 21, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Get rid of dervs and rits, both are irredeemable garbage.

I actually like the concept of sins and paras, but there needs to be some limitations. There needs to be skills to remove / counter chants that don't suck. There needs to be limitations on shadow stepping, like half current range with y-axis (vertical) limits. Unblockable sin chains also need to go.

On the core classes I sure as shit hope they don't make the nec so cheesy next time. If it's going to be another overpowered hex factory I'd just as soon so it go as well.

Nessar · Jun 21, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Mesmers will prolly stay since it's a core prof...

I'll guess that rits or dervs will go...Or be merged with another class

englitdaudelin · Jun 22, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

Game balance far outweighs peoples feelings imo

Old quote. But an important issue.

But as somebody said, we're getting a whole new game, and I expect, whole new skills. When the professions, their skills and abilities, their weapons, and their functions in groups are all known FROM THE START (i.e. not added on, not given potent skills with big numbers in green; i.e. not the victims and progenitors of "Power Creep"), we'll likely get something approaching balance, from the start.

If we look at the sources of serious imbalance, the paragon's shouts and the unstrippable weapon spells seem to come to mind most notably. Oddly enough, they're new (add-on) classes that altered the operations of "core" classes.
Add the arguably overpowered dervish, and that's 3 out of 4 classes.

Anyway, the overpowered-ness of these comes partly from (arguably) not fully considering all the ways these skills would synthesize in a full party, especially in competitive play (which tends to drive skill balances)--and not having good counters for them. The cost of a shout while hexed with ... Ulcerous Lungs, I think?... just didn't seem great enough, against the benefits of the shouts. Is there ANY counter to weapon spells (besides...other weapon spells?)?

So if the design of ALL classes, and both their integration into a competitive team, and their potential counters in competitive teams, is considered from the start, we might just see all 10 classes, carefully balanced, not subject to power creep, in a game that might approach what we love. Then, no class will need the chop...not even mesmers.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 22, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

I'll just go an state the bad points that could lead to getting a "chop" for GW2.

Monk: Nothing that bad, a bit overpowered due to their versatility and possible farming capabilities, although they just might try to prevent that instead of giving a chop, this profession isn't in much danger.

Warrior: Basic form of a Melee, might get the chop if Dervish and Assassin are staying (if that happens, the others might get more weapons, and Paragons might get a sword, just a possibility). Don't think this profession is in much danger as it is the basic "idiot" profession, and a good starting profession to get use to the game.

Elementalist: Generic Element caster. Don't see a real reason why it would be removed other then its use as a secondary profession for farming. (personally, I hope that the secondary profession is removed for GW2 and they use a tier system)

Necromancer: Don't think this will get removed as its basically a must have for a Necromancer in ANY Fantasy game. Everyone loves those dark heroes

. But, they might see a huge nerf as they are very versatile.

Mesmer: Not used much, hated due to its "complexity" (meaning, its hard to time the skills *the interrupts* and people complain about being a mesmer is hard). Might get removed, but if kept they might get a buff for energy management (as their isn't that grand right now).

Ranger: Generic Druid/Hunter idea. Don't see it getting removed. Only problem would be that its limited to a bow only, in which case it would probably just get a buff (Crossbows please!)

Ritualist: This is basically a N/Mo imo. It summons otherwordly things and heals. Might get either scrapped or a buff as a second healer (as I think it was meant to be). Might also get merged into the Monk and Necro professions. Most likely for a caster being scrapped.

Assassin: These are basically the "quick" melee, and is, in a way, a W/N. People misunderstand this profession as it seems to me, and is then disliked. Most likely of the attackers to get removed, but I think (and hope) that the idea will just be moved from based off of a Ninja to an Arabic Assassin (like in Assassin's Creed

). Really hoping this is not cut from the line personally.

Dervish: The "Holy Warriors." Might get removed as they are basically a Mo/W/E (I say this because of the "holy" part *Mysticism basically* is monkish, its melee with 70 armor *warrior-like*, and does elemental AoE damage *Elementalist-like*). A good chance of getting removed. If kept, good chance of a nerf.

Paragon: Basically a W/Mo/R (80 armor+shouts=W|Spear=R|Party Support=Mo). Rather overpowering in the game. If kept, they will get a good nerf (in the form of many more shout and chant removals on other professions).

Personally, I like all the professions except Warrior and somewhat Monk. If Ritualists are made into better supporters, then I wouldn't mind seeing Monks go. Warrior, I think should be replaced by the Dervish all together, but thats my opinion, don't listen to me.

hyphyclay · Jun 22, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

screw it everything i wrote was retarded

samifly · Jun 22, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

I havent read through the previous posts, but It's most likely that the core professions are staying. they are the ones that are most balanced, and most other games have them. Mesmer is the only one which is unique, and I think it will stay since its one of the things GW got right (at least in PvP)

Alleji · Jun 22, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

I would be fine with all 4 non-core professions getting chopped, but if anet chooses to keep them they'd need to make some adjustments. The only class I'd really like to see removed completely is paragon - the concept is downright terrible to the core and does not belong in PvP.

Assassins are fine, except remove shadowsteps from the game and maybe give them more shutdown skills. Make assassin into a melee half-mesmer rather than 12345 combo masher.

Dervishes are a fine concept too as an alternative to warriors. The issues with this class in GW1 are fairly superficial and can be fixed by balancing some problem skills and reducing the range of scythe damage to 14-36 instead of 9-41 or something like that (150 crits from buffed dervs are dumb).

The only problem with rits are weapon spells, which need to have a counter other than interrupts. Oh and preferably make them less shallow... for several months every rit in every non-spike build carried this bar: Splinter, A-rage, Warding, Kaolai, Life, DPS, [two other skills, which were often warmonger's+offering of spirit or utility elite+emanagement skill] (I guess now with hardcore nerfs to splinter we see a bit more variation)

Mesmers IMO are nowhere near being endangered if anet plans to keep GW2 anything like GW1 because of the central role they play in balanced PvP (along with warriors and monks). PvP needs to have shutdown and spreading it out evenly among all classes would be a bad idea... look at wow, where almost every class has a couple shutdown options (stuns/poly/fear/etc).

gremlin · Jun 22, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Better to abandon all the professions and start again.
I realise its a radical change but I see GW2 as a new game loosely based on gw1 but not a direct copy with better graphics.

Would rather they let players choose skills that lead them down paths with more and more restrictions as they go one depending on their previous choices.

Armour would again limit some skills but you would be able to choose to wear a lighter armour then you are skilled at "or none at all" to remove the limiting factor armour would have.

Its a lot harder for parties to snub people for the class they run if there are no classes as such.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 22, 2008, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Better to abandon all the professions and start again.

That actually isn't a bad idea. Personally, I think that when a character is made, there is no profession. You choose your primary (and hopefully only) profession the same way you choose a secondary in GW1.

Instead of a Primary/Secondary profession system, I would rather see a tier system. Like have Fighter to a "heavy fighter"(like the warrior) or a "light fighter" (like the Assassin). Similar set up for the Caster and Ranged fighter professions(of course having real names

). Just my thought on a better profession system. So not just restart the profession set up, but a new profession system might work better, at least imo.

la_cabra_de_vida · Jun 22, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Sins, dervs, paras all deserve to die. Rits can be salvaged, and need spirits canned. Necros need less stupid lines (blood) and gimmicks (curses, sr). Other five are fine.

Dru Stratas · Jun 22, 2008, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koudelka

Assassins - Now, I think people's assumptions of them is unfair. People who are not particularly competent equip 7 attack skills and expect to survive on Shadow Refuge with 3 Shadow Arts. Because of this people assume they have no defence (when in actual fact they have a much greater defence then they are given credit for) and are shunned in PvE.

Too true. Assassins have a rather bad name, in Pugs at least, because when Factions was realeased, Warriors, who were used to their high armor and near invulnerability, picked up the assassin and played without realising the lower armor level, and therefore made Assassins seem like a tanking class.

I think that either Assassin or maybe even Ritualist will get the chop in GW2, both of which I play, and it will be a shame, but maybe they will even scrap all the proffessions and create a new set, who can say?

tmakinen · Jun 22, 2008, 10:02 AM // 10:02

There is one very big difference between GW and GW2 and that is the introduction of races and racial abilities. A direct transfer of the GW profession system would be a catastrophic failure. Think of the profession discrimination in GW then raise that to the second power, like in "we only accept norn warriors and asuran elementalists et.c." Or, to cover all bases, instead of having 10 characters, one of each profession, you'll need one of each profession and race. With the five confirmed races and ten existing professions it would require no less than 50 character slots.

One system that would work is to ditch the concept of permanent primary profession. When making a build, you would first choose one primary attribute line and up to three other lines. The choice of the primary would affect your energy regeneration and management options as well as armor properties, and would be similar to choosing a primary profession. The regular attribute lines wouldn't be directly tied to any primary line, so you could make up something that in GW would be classified as W/E/N/Mo. For every weapon there would be a corresponding attribute line. That would trivially merge all physicals into just one fighter class with a wide array of customization choices.

That would also require an uphaul of the armor system but it can also be done so that the problems of the current system are solved.

FengShuiDove · Jun 22, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Unblockable sin chains also need to go.

Didn't even have to glance at your profession preference in your profile. Removing unblockable chains/stance removal absolutely makes blocking stances the most broken game mechanic. It's ridiculous in PvE if you don't bring stance removal, and since Rangers have +30 elemental resistance your other primary sources of damage like eles are slow to kill them. Bad idea. The shadow stepping limitation isn't bad though. It still allows the quick "get in the battle" mechanic while still requiring some knowledge of positioning on the field.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KainSword

If the classe count would have to be cut in half, Warrior, Ranger, Monk, Elementalist, and Necromancer (ArenaNet's supposed favorite child) would be the only ones to make the cut. After that, you'd have to consider which other classes would be needed to balance those primary 5.

I can see that. It gives you a little sampling of everything in GW right now. Assassins might go into Rangers, Dervish into Warrior, Rit or Mesmer into Necro, Mesmer in Elementalist, leaving Paragon with Monk -- an unlikely pairing but doable depending on the way they implement it.

Still, I doubt it will be chopped in half. I'm guessing either 6 professions with the expansion classes worked into them or 10 like we have now.

street peddler · Jun 22, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

rework all the classes to be balanced with each other. they now have the oppurtunity to do this, so i dont see why they would cut any of the classes.

Prokiller88 · Jun 22, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

There is no reason to drop any of these classes for GW2, they just need to be reworked and balanced.

But if they have to drop a profession, I would like to paragon and rit to go bye bye.
Paragons are way too good, good ranged dps, with party wide buffs/heals, that makes a near invincible class.
Rits on the other hand are crappy, the spirits are pretty good except, they can't move. The weapon spells are good but only 1 at a time. The healing spells are decent, but the secondary effects of them requires a spirit. The item holding really messes up your weapon set up.

MithranArkanere · Jun 22, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Dervishes can be merged with Assassins, Ritualists can be meged with Necromancers.

rohan boru · Jun 22, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

These are my thoughts, someone may have already posted this but I'm too lazy to look.

In GW2 it says that transportation to Cantha and Elona is no longer possible. With that being said I think and sort of hope that Rits (although I love them), Assasins, Paragons, and the Dervish will be eliminated.